Lisa Orbe-Austin, PhD
Lisa Orbe-Austin, PhD
Do these thoughts sound familiar?
I feel unqualified for my job.
I’m a fake and going to be found out.
I had a lot of luck and connections to get where I am in my career.
If you’re nodding your head yes, then you may be struggling with imposter syndrome. Impostor Syndrome refers to the inability to internalize success — when you have a persistent belief that they are unintelligent or incompetent.
Up to 70% of people experience imposter syndrome at some point in their career, and there are many real, tangible consequences to not addressing it. For example, you may also be passed up for new projects because you discount the work you do. You may miss out on earning more money because you don’t ask for what you’re worth, or you may avoid going for leadership opportunities because you don’t think you’re qualified.
The good news is that imposter syndrome doesn’t have to hold you back. It’s entirely possible to overcome the feeling of being a fraud, and I spoke with Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin to find out how. Dr. Orbé-Austin is a licensed psychologist, executive coach, and author of Own Your Greatness: Overcome Impostor Syndrome, Beat Self-Doubt, and Succeed in Life. In this interview, she shares more about how to move past the feeling of inadequacy so you can take steps toward a happier, more fulfilling career.
Melody Wilding: You’re a recognized expert on imposter syndrome. What personal experience inspired you to do this work?
Lisa Orbé-Austin, PhD: I probably had imposter syndrome my whole academic career, but it was really heightened in my doctoral program. Throughout my doctoral program, I was constantly in a gigantic imposter cycle of trying to prove myself, overworking, and not internalizing feedback. I really burnt out toward the end of it. It was brutal to cross the finish line. I was in pieces. Still, despite being in pieces, I still had to go out and get a job. I had to keep going.
In the second role out of school, my imposter syndrome was still pretty present. I had a really toxic boss. He was very misogynistic and difficult to work with. He would humiliate me in front of the faculty and other faculty members. I was constantly questioning my competence and my ability to contribute. I was frozen in my imposter syndrome and struggling to feel I could find a better job. My husband finally said, “You have to leave.” I decided I was going to quit, and when I did, it was a very dramatic scene. I remember walking out and hearing my footsteps echoing in the hallway and thinking, “Oh my God, did I just destroy my entire career?”
I came home and had a panic attack. I was circling in my living room thinking my whole career has gone down the drain. In that moment I decided I was not going to let this run me anymore. I decided to think about what I wanted and I started studying for my licensing exam. I started developing my psychology practice. I started really focusing on my needs and it was all because my husband said one very powerful thing to me, which is that when you work as hard for yourself as you do for others, you’re going to be unstoppable.
At that point, I really started very practically working on my imposter syndrome and really trying to face the things that I feared. I tried to not get into those proving dynamics and all the other things play into imposter syndrome. Doing that made me fall in love with people who also struggle with imposter syndrome. I was always drawn to people who felt this kind of way about themselves and I would always find myself wanting them to own their greatness, to own their amazingness. My practice began filling with solely this kind of person who was struggling with imposter syndrome. And then we started writing about it publicly and started talking about it and discussing it.
Wilding: How does imposter syndrome typically come up for your clients? Has this changed during the pandemic?
Orbé-Austin: Mostly they have either gotten a new promotion, a new leadership role. Something is new in their sphere and it includes more responsibility or visibility. I think I see it if there’s been a moment in which they feel like their fraudulence has been amplified in some way, like having a big public talk that didn’t go well.
Because of the nature of the way the pandemic shook the world I think people were initially very fearful about the security of their jobs and the stability of whether or not they could still hold on to what they had. I think it heightened their need to show that they were still valuable, that they could prove they were worth keeping. As the pandemic has worn on though, it has gotten heightened because people are carrying massive amounts of responsibility like childcare, elder care and still felt they had to perform at some exemplary level, which is impossible to maintain. People start thinking, “Clearly I’m not as good as I think I am because I can’t hold all these pieces together.”
I think also too, the nature of how quickly our ways of communicating changed and not feeling comfortable in this new dynamic of being on zoom and having to do all these different technological things, that affects the way that we show up in our lives. All of those changes so quickly really make people respond to their own triggers.
Wilding: What factors influence a person’s experience with imposter syndrome?
Orbé-Austin: In terms of how it gets triggered, some of the more common triggers for imposter syndrome are new experiences, new events, and new roles. So something new where you don’t feel a sense of competence or mastery over it yet. High visibility as well, things where you’re going to be seen by people who feel like you’re significant in the field. It can also get triggered by fearing you’re going to make a mistake or that you don’t have a full understanding of what could go wrong. All of those things can trigger your imposter syndrome. There are more but these are what I find to be the most common triggers.
Wilding: What is the first place readers can start when it comes to owning their greatness?
Orbé-Austin: For us as psychologists, we start at the beginning. We start with family history and the childhood dynamics, in the experiences that you grew up with, templates that set the ground for a posture. In the literature, there’s a lot that correlates to why imposter syndrome develops, some of them are early, very fixed childhood roles of either you were the smart one but you felt like if you ever had to work hard at anything it was evidence that you weren’t as smart as everyone thought you were. Or if you were the hardworking one, you weren’t one who was considered naturally gifted at anything, you were always having to put your nose to the grindstone in order to get things done and get things accomplished. But that left you feeling like there was nothing really individually strong, skilled, or unique about you. Those two are the ones noted in the literature. But then my husband and I realized there’s a third type that doesn’t fit into either one of these categories.
The third type we found in our work was the survivor. The person who doesn’t get a lot of feedback from people, they’re either smart or hardworking, but they need to achieve certain accomplishments to get out of their current circumstances, to be able to have a different life, or to have a different opportunity. Survivors that experience imposter syndrome often feels like one wrong move and it’s all done. There’s a lot of correlation between co-dependence dynamics in families and imposter syndrome. Between poorly managed anger, conflict in the family, a naturally high need to please others, or families that focus on achievement above all else. Narcissistic parental figures, those kinds of things can also correlate. For us, it’s really about understanding which particular family dynamics were involved when finding a starting position. Not just for knowing it, not for blame, but for the purpose of understanding why it triggers you today and how it functions.
In essence, once you look at the roadmap of what started it, you can clearly see why you attracted certain bosses, you can see why you get into certain environmental dynamics in an organization. It really helps to open that up and once you know your triggers, you can make different choices about how you then interact with the trigger. You can learn not to respond with this need to prove yourself, you can recognize where you’re at and make a healthier choice instead of being reactive to the moment.
Wilding: In your book, you talk about using role-play to move past imposter syndrome. Can you explain?
Orbé-Austin: When you have imposter syndrome, you are typically in these very rigid roles in your own life. You’re the helper or you’re the knowledge hub. You get into these very classic roles where you just feel like you have to know it all or do it all to help everyone. Part of shifting away from the dynamic of imposter syndrome is trying on new roles and trying on new ways of being in a role. They often feel very vulnerable for us with imposter syndrome, but instead of being the helper, practice asking for help learning something new. Finding ways to be more vulnerable can help us find new ways to act.
For example, we tend to do things largely on our own. We feel like it’s better for us to just handle it because we know it will be done right. But we have to get used to being collaborators on things. That’s a skill and we have to learn how to trust other people in situations, to feel like they’re not going to accidentally reveal us as a fraud by their participation. We often talk in terms of the role play piece, about trying it in low stakes situations first, like with friends and family, people who you feel safe. Even with the people you feel safe with, they may struggle with seeing you in another role. They may not love it but it’s a safer place to try on new roles. It isn’t a high-stakes situation like work or with your boss. Once you feel more comfortable, then you get into higher-stakes situations. It’s about giving yourself the ability to get outside of these very calcified roles that are keeping us in the imposter syndrome.
Wilding: What are some other tips for overcoming imposter syndrome?
Orbé-Austin: There are a lot of them, but I think some of the more important ones are learning how to challenge the automatic negative thoughts that are triggered from triggering situations. I love the quote, “You are not your thoughts, you’re the observer of your thoughts.” Learning how to observe your thoughts and then counter the negative ones that are based on irrational experience, this allows you to be grounded in what’s really happening as opposed to getting stuck in a downward spiral. Knowing the difference between “this presentation was horrible” and “I made a single solitary mistake, it happens, I’m human”, that’s countering and learning how to re-narrate something in a much healthier way for yourself is so critical.
Also, learning how to prioritize our self-care. When we have imposter syndrome, we put ourselves at the bottom of the wrung. It’s really important to learn how to structure and care for yourself thoughtfully. Watch your burnout and watch your recovery from your burnout, because burnout is very common for us. Make practices to ensure that you’re really caring for yourself.
It can also be really important to have a community around you, build a team around you that really helps you have good mentors. Pick people that ground you or big picture thinkers, having a set of people around you because we tend to do things alone in solitary. Watching how you narrate your successes, your achievements, what you say about yourself to other people. Don’t discount yourself or put yourself down, learning to take good compliments is a method of internalizing your wins. There’s a lot of different techniques. The most important thing is to simply do something about it, take a step forward, don’t think this is just the way it is. It’s not going to take you 30 or 40 years to get over it, the important part is that you do something about it, it will change.
